Thursday, August 25, 2016

Web Platform Discussion

The question of whether to stay on Blogspot or move to a forum-based platform elsewhere is interesting and important enough to deserve its own post. I've read all the comments on the subject left on the 0.8.2 post, and it seems like there's a lot of support for the idea. It's an exciting possibility, and could provide much better community engagement, modding support, and feedback response than happens here. A forum could even support fun stuff like worldbuilding threads and writing.

On the downside, I'm extremely cautious about keeping my hobby authorship of FC and the rest of my life strictly segregated. (Longtime players have probably seen this tendency in action before.) As far as I can tell, securing a domain, getting web hosting, etc. are all possible anonymously, but it's a chore that I don't want.

A clever alternative suggested in several comments was to create a subforum elsewhere. This has its own issues. I'd want quite a lot of moderator authority, with the intention of handing it over towards community members willing to exercise it on my behalf, and not everyone seems willing to just hand that kind of thing over.

If anyone can see a good way past this, let me know. Alternatively, if you've got experience with these issues and are willing to help a novice, email me and we can hash it out.

76 comments:

  1. As a potential location for the subforum, my thoughts went immediately to http://www.weightgaming.com/ which, despite the name, is not just limited to wg fetish games. The forum is an offshoot of Tainted Elysium's developer's site, which actually has you mentioned under the peer projects section at www.atticusarc.com/peer-projects/
    Even if you don't want to partner (or whatever) with Atticus, I'd still recommend him as a person to talk to about the issues you mentioned.

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    1. Additionally, it looks as though there's already a way in which you could have a child board, based on the numerous ones on there already.

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    2. Actually, correction, atticus just has a subforum, the actual admin is kilif, aka vilified. But it looks as though you could have a board there while still keeping the blogspot going if you wanted to.

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    3. Honestly seeing how weightgaming falls into the gameplay option and it seems like what those above me seem to make out that so long that you talk the admin you might work something out.

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  2. How about using something like Disqus?

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  3. I think it's only been a day or two since tfgs (tfgamessite, transformationgamessite) changed its forum layout. I don't know the exact privileges you're getting, but it looks like just what you were looking for: A subforum in which you have mod rights. I'm not sure how additional mods are appointed, specifically whether you can appoint your own or if you'd have to go through tfgs staff for that, but it shouldn't be needed that often once you have a few trusted people in place.

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    1. Welp, I knew I forgot something... the link to the announcement/thread of this change.
      https://www.tfgamessite.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259

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  4. Replies
    1. That would be my suggestion as well. After all, Reddit is the place where I found out about this game. :p

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    2. After some poking around, it does look like creating a sub-reddit would be a great choice and probably draw in more testers. Admittedly I found FC through an unrelated reddit post also.

      Getting a sub-forum is an established forum that features similar projects is a good idea also, especially if they're already aware of you. Making an entirely new forum is unlikely to have any more effect, especially since the blog will probably remain the first site that the majority check.

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    3. No. Reddit's format is cumbersome.
      If we're not moving somewhere with a traditional forum layout, we might as well not move at all.

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    4. I was personally following this project since the make-a-slave thread in /d/, but I would never the less third this.

      The pros are that since you will be the founding first mod, you will basically have unlimited mod powers (since reddit rules are minimalistic as it is and admins infamously dgaf about what goes on in their website unless it manages to become a PR issue), the platform is steady, the sign up requirements are minimal (they don't even require an e-mail for the registration), and it may help expand the userbase (since each sub is basically autonomous, but is part of a more general ''ecosystem''). Added to this, it allows for a range of customization options, has a sidebar for important information, you can pin posts etc. The layout (especially the way replies are stacked in each thread) takes some getting used to, but it's not especially bothersome. It's certainly a lot less disfunctional than blogspot posts.

      Honestly, I don't think there is a disadvantage to the idea, and you should likely make a sub there anyway, even if it's only auxiliary. In my experience you get the same A-grade shitposting cuntnuggets in 4chan and reddit. They all boast that their cultures are so different, but that's just posturing. The edge in 4chan and the civility in reddit are both facades to cover up the incredible mass of identically inane bullshit spouted by the contributors.

      As a sidenote, I hope you don't kill the blog. I get sentimentally attached to the siliest of things (like my starting slaves for instance!) and I just can't let them go.

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    5. Reddit also doesn't eat code (there is a special code view for the purpose), so that's a good thing, too.

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    6. By FAR the best option (if this place moves in the first place, that is). Fenoxo and other suggestions are "bad" in the sense that they will limit the playerbase because those places are not for everyone. Also, the requirements to sign up in Reddit are absolutely fucking minimal. Also, just like the author, many of us want to be anonymous.

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  5. See if you can get in contact with Aika, who runs trapquest.com - (s)he wishes to remain anonymous, and has successfully done so thus far, and he transitioned from blogpspot to a private domain a couple of years ago (wow, it really has been that long). (S)He might be willing/able to give you some information on how (s)he did it, if there are specific hoops you have to jump though, which I'm sure there are. The only thing I'll say is that I know (s)he is UK-based - since his/her old blogspot has a .co.uk extension - and since yours does not, I assume you are US-based, so I don't know if the laws might be different on this subject. I have no idea if (s)he'd be willing to help you, but since you both wish to remain anonymous, and you both create creative porn games for /d/eviants, I'd say it's very possible.

    Good luck! Anonymity is a valuable thing, and I totally understand your desire to retain it.

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  6. There are a number of free forums available. I maintain one via forumotion and I'd pretty much recommend them (not on commission or anything!). They can be used entirely for free or there are some options that you can pay for. I'd certainly recommend at least checking it out and if you need any help/advice setting it up then hit me up with a reply here and we can talk about it.

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    Replies
    1. Adult content is against their TOS.

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    2. Wow those are some badly written TOSs. But nice catch - I never even thought to check.

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  7. Well since this is separate post i drop my humble 5cents in. As i sayd before id love to be more active but limited nature of comment section for each update is well, limited. Feed back/bug reports are obscured and barryed under sujestions, questions and simple chatter between ppl. So i limit my self, to keep coms clean so to speak.
    This community grown, and its only natural to seek bigger home. Not sure but is http://www.tfgamessite.com/ forum and option? FC have solid rep there so....

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  8. check out albedo.pw

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  9. Indeed, for now, most of the modding is either semi un visible, or seen otherwise.

    As to a forum, good idea as it would allow for quite a better opening for diverses subjects.

    As of yet, not sure about where to go, as they are some options but as to weight them = some time needed.

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  10. maybe you should check https://fenoxo.com/forum/

    they have FC thread here https://fenoxo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/649-free-cities/

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  11. Make a board on 8chan ?

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    Replies
    1. I second 8chan, though as another anon mentioned, Fenoxo's Forum is a good option, or forumotion.

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    2. I would personally prefer not to, but it could work.
      Thirded, I guess.

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    3. I disagree with 8chan.

      Mostly because we already have 4chan. What 8chan offers over our general at 4chan is moderator powers. But beyond that it's a clone of 4chan, offering all the same limitations and advantages of any other anonymous imageboard, including the ephemeral nature of posts, which I assume is something we don't want out of a forum. I think it'd be useful if it doubled as an archive of sorts for both FC dev's progress and for mod progress etc. Something that is permanenet and where we can search for old stuff.

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    4. Except we don't "have" 4chan, we arguably only have a single thread on /d/ that is shared with discussion about other content.
      8ch would let us have our own board in its entirety, with organized threads dedicated to their own topics, and our own moderation. It's entirely anonymous, intuitive, and, most importantly IMO, rather secluded from the rest of the Internet.
      Also, since boards don't get deleted if they're relatively active your complaint about ephemeral nature of posts doesn't apply. It does apply in the case of 4chan, which is TOO active and threads get frequently pushed off the 10 board page limit (which is still not always the case - go on /t/ and you'll see threads from 2015).

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    5. Being hosted on such a toxic platform seems like a really bad idea.

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    6. It's a good idea. I support this.

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    7. >Being hosted on such a toxic platform seems like a really bad idea.
      How can a fucking platform be 'toxic'???? A community can be 'toxic', a person can be 'toxic', or they could, if it wasn't a made-up buzzword made up by whiny, thin-skinned children, to define "those mean internet bullies saying bad words to my special snowflake ass online pls ban them :((((" popularized by that absolute shitfest of a videogame League of Legends and their cancerous developers.
      In other words, fuck you fucking comment. How's that for 'toxic'?

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    8. Thank you for demonstrating exactly why 8chan is a bad idea, angsty teens that can't type 3 sentences without ending up in "fuck you". And League of Legends? What crack are you smoking?

      This is not about a random thread on a shitty site, it's about an official forum for this game, and this game deserves better than that cesspool of bigotry.

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    9. >cesspool of bigotry
      Ah I see. So you're one of those leftie fucks who knows about 8chan only from that Goobergate shitwreck.
      Boggles my mind how one of your kind would even find their way anywhere near a game conceptualized around the idea of turning strong independent womyn into subhuman semen dumpsters in a whole plethora of ways.
      Well, allow me to re-iterate and reinforce my argument that people are 'toxic', not websites: fuck you and your post and your biases.
      My vote stands firm for an 8ch imageboard or an independent forum, the former of which is much easier and safer to set up. If not for anything else, then solely to weed out ignorant fucks spouting nonsense like 'THAT SITE IS FUCKING TOXIC REEEE'

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    10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJiRijiLwbQ

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    11. Jesus titty fucking christ, what is your major malfunction? You keep projecting your own prejudices but if you would just take a deep breath and wonder if a site where every second reply is either "nigger" "jew" or "kill your self" is an improvement over what we have here you would stop being a such a fanboy of your shitty excuse of an internet community. It does not take a dumbshit lefty League of Legends basement dweller to realise as such. But thanks again for demonstrating how 8chan can never be the official forum for this game.

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    12. I haven't had too many bad experiences on 8chan, sure there's board that are just full of shitposting, but it's the same with 4chan. We can easily make our own board and moderate it. Hot Wheels made 8chan as a haven of free speech, and to him that includes shit posting, which I agree with. I believe(not sure) we could set keywords to blacklist to prevent spam.

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    13. Thank you all for providing an object lesson in why I don't like the idea of moving to 8chan.

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    14. 8chan or 4chan, why does it matter? Both are the same. The only thing is, whoever makes a board at 8chan can influence how much toxicity there is. If board mods feel that someone is being too toxic, they can be booted.

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    15. That's pretty rich coming from you, a /d/ regular.

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  12. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jul/14/dennis-cooper-google-censorship-dc-blog

    I think this article is relevant and worth a read. Blogspot does have a shady trackrecord on censorship, surely there are better and safer places to be hosted.

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  13. Fenoxo.com maybe?

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    Replies
    1. I second this. You could ask Fen if you could "reside" on his site. It's where I found out about this game in the first place.

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  14. i used https://www.prophpbb.com/ in the past and they were anon and free when i did. so that could be a platform to look at if you haven't done so already.

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  15. Not sure which is better just leave an adress we can get to after this.

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    Replies
    1. Of course. I will be careful about this and will definitely link to wherever we go from here.

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  16. Just set up a bug tracker or something. Not every fanbase needs to be turned into a 'community', which is what always happens when you set up a forum to discuss the game. Then it's all 'post ur cat pics' and RL politics threads from there. It's a hassle, even if you appoint volunteer mods to do some of the work for you (which is in and of itself a hassle).

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    1. Yeah, I kinda agree with this one, honestly.

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    2. A bug tracker could be useful, whatever else happens in terms of platform. Any recommendations on which I should try?

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    3. >Then it's all 'post ur cat pics' and RL politics threads from there.

      The results of poor moderation and community management. If you don't give your community the platform to have cat picture threads and rl politics (aka creation of off-topic subforums and such), you won't have that issue. And even if somebody does make a thread, a good moderator team will take it down if you setup the guidelines properly. Which you definitely will need to do, regardless of what.

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    4. "Any recommendations on which I should try?"
      I know nothing about the topic except that HHS+ uses Mantis and that Furry Science Man uses Trello (which also does other stuff and is most likely overkill). Mantis seems to work okay, but you'd probably have to host it yourself.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_Bug_Tracker
      https://trello.com/b/ULIAJ0Ik/r2ck

      "If you don't give your community the platform to have cat picture threads and rl politics (aka creation of off-topic subforums and such), you won't have that issue."
      It's a slippery slope. Every forum eventually succumbs to well-why-not-what's-the-harm-ism.

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    5. >It's a slippery slope. Every forum eventually succumbs to well-why-not-what's-the-harm-ism.

      Like I said, if you don't crack down on it, you will have these things popping up.

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  17. About this whole 8chan idea... you people do realize that there is a thread dedicated to FC on 8chan's /hgg/ board, right?
    It's almost a month old now.
    Still, it's just one thread... having multiple would be better... I prefer fully anonymous discussion myself, mainly to avoid drama, elitism and circlejerks.

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    1. It DOES have multiple threads, since the old ones hit their limit. IIRC, they're on the third thread so far.

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  18. Guess I am a little late about Fenoxo, but it does have a nice community also Savin really enjoys your game. Would also recommend Futanari Palace (cmacleod of SlaveMaker has his forum hosted there).

    http://fenoxo.com/
    http://futanaripalace.com

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  19. Don't ditch this blog. It's easy as fuck to take a look once a week to grab the new update and look at the new changes. If you bury this in the ass end of someone else's forum, you'll kill off your playerbase. Also fuck having to sign up to shit just to point out bugs; if you do move to a forum, make some (very easy) way of Anonymously reporting bugs or you lose half your active testers.

    While it is a cesspit of faggottry, reddit might be the best option because it's easy af to roll a quick alt to post about raping amputee slaves without that shit being traced to an email address because some mod got his panties in a twist.

    tl:dr if it takes too much effort, it kills your game

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    1. Also remember that you have many flavours of degenerate fuck in your playerbase. Some are furry degenerates, others are shemale loving degenerates, while others prefer to keep their degeneracy vanilla. Tying this game to one brand of degeneracy (eg fenoxo's furry site, futanari palace etc) will chase people off.

      That might sound hypersensitive, but it's not about people being offended by crap; it's about how shitass lazy every single one of us is. Make us wade through stuff that doesn't float our boat and people will just declare "fuck this shit" o'clock and go jerk off to something else.

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    2. Maybe a link in the sidebar to the forums could work; i know I'd certainly like somewhere to discuss modding among other things.

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    3. I personally supported the idea of making a subreddit mostly for this reason (that it doesn't require an email for registration), but I must also second this.

      The blog is immensely useful to quickly check up on what's going on and grab the latest update. Even if the discussion moves to some sort of forum, the blog should be kept up, at least for the update posts.

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  20. undertow.club forums would be good to check out. Very quiet place dedicated to modding erotic games/games erotically, mostly used for discussion of a single flashgame about facefucking anime girls. They'd probably let you put shit there since you don't mind people modding your game. If not the entirity of the devblog, you could put mod discussion there.

    It kind of reminds me of hongfire but smaller and newer and lighter and with a dark color scheme. They have a really cool file manager you could drop releases in, and other people could put their mods there easily.

    You could just sticky a bug report thread or something and be basically set.

    I doubt they care about extreme shit, and people wouldn't have to wade through any shit they don't care for on the site just to get to your game.

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  21. So, this is very unrelated to the topic and more towards the policies of the game, but I think it would be a nice addition to add Futa Dominance as a policy that supports those with both male and female genitalia being in charge and additionally a male subservience policy that promotes females and futas owning male slaves while opening the minds of the people towards buying the services of male slaves. Just a thought though since there isn't much going as far as female players go.

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    1. It was said that the reason all slaves are female is because that's the way everything is already coded and written. I don't think any male slave content will ever be, even if biologically male slaves exist in the game.

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    2. Thats a damn good idea. Futas that are already Doms tend to display it to a pretty reasonable degree already in their events and are great content.

      While all slaves are referred to as 'female', the system already can differenciate between Futa, dickgirl and regular in the descriptions so I'm fairly sure that shouldn't be a problem for Futa Domininance as a Policy.

      Honestly I havn't checked too deeply into Gelding/Dickgirl dominant content itself, I tend to bodymod constanty just because I can. I'll add that to my next playthrough just out of curiosity now. The general lore of male/female is explained as depending more on who's dominant than what extra/missing parts they may have. I prefer that to be honest and going around making variable references to every her/she would probably be time consuming.

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    3. See, my thought about it is like, what if you want to live in an amazonian society where the roles are just reversed? But another problem with it is the severe lack of female PC interactions. Like, in almost every interaction, you're just doing the same as the male PC only with a strap-on. More BDSM content would also be pleasant, like the ability to actually choose how you punish slaves or attempt to break their wills or build their devotions, because I almost never read the actual text anymore because it just repeats itself beyond a certain point, which sucks because this is a great game. I know it was designed to be different from other text games where it's almost all reading about sex scenes and more about managing your slaves, but meh, the desire for change always appears with good things.

      Another thing that I was thinking was more sfw choices for slave jobs and other interactions if you wanted to have a more business like experience where you could make actual workers out of your slaves and have a less abusive play through. Just a thought though to increase variability in what you can do. Kinda like how i've suggested before on older posts where you could let other slave owners fight their slaves in your pit for profit and where you could host the racing events without participating and even have a version of the racing events where they are literally racing each other like horses or dogs on a track, which could also lead to the inclusion of pet play slaves.

      Hell, I'd even be willing to write scenes for these events if it would increase their chances of getting into the game.

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  22. Hi fcdev,
    I personally would strongly advise against incorporating this as part of a sub-forum in an already existing forum. Many people here appear to be recommending sites that have had serious issues with moderators in the past, and ceded control of the forum to another partial body shouldn't be a co-requisite for better communication ability. I believe the best method would be an 8chan board or reddit subreddit. At least there you can retain moderating ability and not cede power unless there is illegal content. Not that hosting on reddit for example would strictly limit underage content, which you are opposed to, while 8chan would likely not do the same.

    I do think that moving is a good idea, navigating between comment sections and getting an idea for a community opinion is rather tough from blogger, along with failing to support mods and distinct sub-threads. Ultimately, choose the site that you think will work best.

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  23. I don't know much about what forums are good or bad or about programming, but I think it would be a bad idea to get a subforum in an erotic gaming forum with specific focuses, such as futanari palace or fenoxo's site. It would likely restrict the number and types of people who would find and play your game, simply because your game would be associated with a specific fetish. If you are goong to go the subforum route, try to choose a forum that is as general as possible.

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    Replies
    1. This argument has weight. A subforum at an existing community would instantly kill many players' willingness to participate.

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    2. Easiest solution is to try and setup something on a site that allows creation of communities with as minimal oversight as possible from the general admin staff of the site, such as Reddit subreddit or 8chan boards.

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  24. Always been a fan of anonymity myself, not likely to participate in a forum.

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  25. I think FC needs to have its own forum. You can have people register or not. Just close some doors you wouldn't want an anon to see, if there are any. As long as people can dl and reply to comments i think they wont mind

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  26. The answer is Reddit. They have subforums for the stupidest shit, and this is fun and has a small community of followers, it would have more traffic than many subreddits.

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    1. The answer is never Reddit unless the question is "What is not the answer?".

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    2. The main problem with Reddit would be getting reported and being closed down, or maybe it would give FCDev unwanted attention, but other than that, unless we get our own space, a subreddit is the best option, 4chan doesn't allow this kind of support unless we get enough critical mass to have our own thread in /vg/, and doublechan /hgg/ is full of dementia and degenerates, and is painfully slow.

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    3. you need to go

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  27. Hello

    I found this game on Fenoxo site and I have to say I am enjoying this game, it has a lot of potential, I'll be keeping my eye on this game, keep up the good work.

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